Titan Transnational discovers the Stars

Dydra 2766

Since O&C is the next box (finally!) I opened myself to some Weyland builds.

This is a very interesting attempt into playing with the "Star" ICE while fast advancing their advancements to victory!

Why Titan Transnational?

  • We will be advancing our ICE, so I want to ToL from the already rezzed "Star ICE" and utilize those advancements. The extra influence really helps here to get the ToL AND and the Shipments and Jacksons

  • The ID gives Project Atlas, power equal only to Astroscript .... If not even stronger. Once you score one Atlas, Counter to find another , ToL 2 counters and 1c Advance, score and u get a counter for your 3rd one. Finish off with a Hostile Takeover or Firmware updates.

Where is the money?

Well, here is where it gets funky. You will lower the rezz cost of your ICE by spamming Shipments and then you will ToL ( 1c) for the Agenda score. Commercialization for when u have enough advances on ICE ( Don't be afraid to to use it as a Beanstalks) and Reclamation Order to pick up back your Shipments or Commercializations and Tricks of Light if needed.

Where it could go wrong?

The previous version of this deck, was playing 3x Glenn Stations and 1x the 9/6 Agenda. The idea was to lock the Agenda on a Glenn Station and just remove it from the game for the runner. However, you need Fast Tracks, so u get to the 9/6 or It's game over.

Including those would mean that I have to cut some other cards like Satellite Grid or Constellation Protocol, which I believe are perfect for the Star ICE.

So I decided to go away from that path.

enjoy =)

36 comments
26 Jan 2015 BTrain

I'm digging this, my friend, but one question: what does this deck have in the way of early econ? Commercialization only kicks in after you've spammed your shipments (and you'd have to have four counters on one ice before it equaled a Hedge Fund), and Hostile Takeover of course comes with the downside of bad pub.

Other than that, this looks pretty fun to play. Just a few days now until the big box!

26 Jan 2015 Dydra

Hey @BTrain :) I do agree about Commercialization, but Indeed I'm looking more to it, as an late-game econ, rather than early.

I've done quite a few card draw simulations of this deck and in what I'd call 7 out of 10 times, you would get 2 advancable ICE ( there is only one ICE in this deck that is not advancable) and shipment/tol/atlas/ Hostile / Upgrade.

The worst draw Sim that I had was 2 ice with Jackson and then draw into 6 more ICE. Then you could say you are pretty fked.

Aside from that though, if you hit the shipments and/or upgrades, you will be rezzing 5+ STR ice for 0 to 3 credits. Also you always have the 1C Icewall.

Furthermore, simply advancing for 1 Click isn't bad at all, because you on 90% of your ICE, that 1 Adance = 3C and you need 2c to ToL your Atlas :)

Pretty sweet econ.

One other reason I want to keep Commercialization is that I'm wondering if Fire Wall would be better than Icewall or, Asteroid Belt or combination of all 3 and maybe play the "barrier agenda" :) Just stacking having 4-5 advances on a Firewall or Icewall and then Commercialization for them would be pretty nice :)

If worse comes to worse, swapping out the 3x Commercialization for 3x Hedge Fund would be the easiest thing.

26 Jan 2015 PeekaySK

There's some serious anti-synergy I'm seeing here, most notably Hostile with NAPD. Are you certain those shouldn't be Geothermals? Those even work better with your ID.

Not really sold on Commercialization here, as most ICE don't want to amass more than 3 advancement counters (with the only exceptions being Orion and Searchlight. Also, the one nearly criminal omission here seems to be Mark Yale - especially since you're low on money and already running [Firmware Updates].(/en/card/07004).

26 Jan 2015 Dydra

@peekaySK

Yeah, you are right. I'm never looking at NAPD and Hostile Takeover as anti-Synergy, because I'm never looking at NAPD thinking that I need to score that, unless it's a game-winner :)

Geothermal fracking could be quite good yes, but if you combine that bad pub with the 1-3 BP from Hostile Takeover , the large Strength ICE you have wouldn't be so scary.

Also we are not sure yet, how strong will be the BAD Pub runner decks, so I prefer to just nullify one turn for them with NAPD :)

Mark Yale seems to be a solid miss, so I might put 3 of him instead of commercialization :) Or find some balanced number after testing.

26 Jan 2015 Glitch

With no early economy, you won't have enough credits to keep the runner out of your servers. I understand that the Galaxy ice gets cheaper as you advance them, but I feel that Shipment from Kaguya and Shipment from SanSan will just be too slow. You can't even reliably install, advance, advance the ice due to lack of Econ again.

26 Jan 2015 Dydra

./yawn ... econ, econ, econ bla bla bla .... if playing a corp deck that doesn't have 3x Hedge fund and 3x Restructure ( or the Astro version 3x Pad 3x Marked accounts 3x Sweepsweek) seems too risky for you I recommend for you to stick to the old boring corps.

3x Hostile , 3x Kaguya, 3x SanSan = 9 econ cards ( yes in this deck, you can count them as econ) ... it's just a regular split .... in which regular decks even run 9 econ cards ... hey wait ... there is Commercialization in this deck too?

Not even counting upgrades and eventually a Mark Yale ...

You will need between 2 and 5c with this deck to do your job ... and this deck gets them

26 Jan 2015 Dydra

I just draw sim - Hostile , SanSan, ToL , Nebula and Astrobelt ... Mandatory draw - Atlas

instal in front of HQ, SanSan ... let them access R&D ... if they run HQ , 3 rezz cost for 5 STR barrier ... it will be quite hard to get a corroder out and access

Next turn you have so many choices ... best is to Hostile, for a turn, while atlas is in HQ , then you can ToL the atlass from the Asteroidbeld ...

you are already at 3 points with a counter on your Atlas ... all you need to do is to have 2 advances on any ICE and have 1c for ToL when you draw it + 1c for the advace = game

if you feel R*D is too exposed, let the Nebula go down ... in case you have been very unlucky with the 3 random cards he exposed from R&D

26 Jan 2015 JDalart

I would be worried about David out of Anarch. Most all of the ice is 5 strength or higher with one sub. Other than that the deck looks pretty solid. Has a lot of synergy.

26 Jan 2015 Glitch

The reason people keep mentioning economy is because you need it to play this game. There's a reason Hedge Fund is played in almost every deck, and it's because you need early economy for making sure the runner doesn't make quick work of you. Don't get me wrong, I love the Galaxy ice, and how cheap they become, but you need to be able to get to that point first. Not putting the proper amount and mix of early and late game economy in a deck isn't walking on the wild side, it's just not efficient.

Proxy this deck up or build it on OCTGN and play it a few times, I'm sure you're going to find yourself with credit problems more than you may think.

A side note, why are you running Searchlight with nothing to punish tags? Is it to fake the runner out and make them think there's a Scorch threat?

27 Jan 2015 Totakeke

Shipment of SanSan is really only worth 2 credits unless you're playing fast and porous (Astrobiotics) or you're using Efficiency Committee. Is this really worth 3 influence?

27 Jan 2015 Dydra

@Glitch you are the only that keeps on ranting about econ.

Let me tell you this - I've been playing Jinteki, since the first cycle. Back then Jinteki didn't have money and they had the lowest corp econ of all. That's why I'm used to playing ( and I can) low econ decks, while some people who have played mostly HB and Weyland, can't see a deck working without 3 x Hedge Fund.

I've explained already that this deck essentially has 12 econ cards (rather than 9), yet you still keep on ranting about it.

Here is another brief example for you. Tell me, when you have 3x Hedge Fund and 3x Restructure ... SUCH STRONG CARDS ( in noobs minds) that are a must have staples in every deck .... What do you do when you get locked out on low credits ... you click for credits ... how often would you click for 1-2 turns so u get up to the Hedge Fund credits, or the Restructure once ... ehm????

In the context of this deck, which u need between 2 and 5c, clicking those 1-2 turns for credits is if not the same - even better...

@Totakeke Yes, in such decks that play off advances the SanSan are amazing and here is why.

Let's assume that the 3 SanSans are replaced with 3 Beanstalks .... what would happen?

1 Click for 3 credits, 2 clicks to advance an ICE ... that is total of 3 clicks for 2 advances on 1 ICE

SanSan on the other hand gives you a 2 clicks for 2 advances on 1 ICE ... Again from 0 money, just like Beanstalk

In all honesty, I feel there is one anti-synergy here and that is between Commercialization and ToL .... First you need to stack the Advances, Then Commercialization and then ToL .... that's the only downside that Commercialization has in this deck .... if it proves to be that much, replacing it for Mark Yale or Hedge Fund would be the easiest thing to do ( or even Beanstalk)

27 Jan 2015 PeekaySK

Yes, @Glitch is "the only one still ranting about econ", but that's mostly because the rest of us just gave up, really.

Seriously, if your argument against Hedge Fund is "sometimes I need to click to be able to play it", and completely ignore the aspect that with a Hedge Fund you get to 9 credits twice as fast as without, there's no real use continuing the discussion.

(that you need at least 9 credits in a game of netrunner should be painfully obvious by now)

27 Jan 2015 Dydra

@PeekaySK , do u need 9 credits with a scored Astroscript? hm?

27 Jan 2015 Dydra

@PeekaySK , also regarding your argument that with a Hedge Fund you get to 9 credits twice as fast .... that's also not quite accurate

from 0 money ( after AS or whatever), you need 9 clicks ( 3 turns) to get to 9 credits ... with a Hedge, you need 5 clicks + 1 to play it ... 2 complete turns ... sorry, but that's not half ...

27 Jan 2015 PeekaySK

You don't need 9 credits with a scored Astroscript, but you most certainly need 9 credits to get an Astroscript scored, without losing to Indexing, Maker's Eye, Keyhole, repeated Medium runs and a million other things.

But you know, whatever - I'm done here.

27 Jan 2015 Dydra

So you are saying that IF FROM TURN 1, you don't have 9 credits, to protect your R&D you will lose? heh ...

You need 7c prior you draw astro and biotic ... because that's the cost ... after that you need 2c to chain your astros

So a Astrobiotics NEH deck needs 5 to 7c to feel comfortable ( most expensive ice they will ever have Tollbooth anyway , so yes all the Data Ravens, Quandary , Wraparound are easy to rezz in that money pool)

This deck will need 2 to 5c ... and actually I just saw a card that will be amazing for this deck and I'm already implementing it in its next version ... which guess what, also costs 0 and lowers the credits needed to rezz your ICE

27 Jan 2015 Glitch

Listen, I was legitimately attempting to help you, but it's clear that you aren't able to take constructive criticism, or you throw out bad arguments and name calling to start a flame war in order to keep your decks "relevant", I don't know. This will be my last post on this deck, regardless of your responses.

Btw, stating you've played Jinteki since core doesn't mean you know what you're doing. There was a reason they were the worst corp faction for so long and that has everything to do with, you guessed it, economy! So, just because you're used to playing with no economy, doesn't make it a good deck. It just brings it back to a time when Jinteki was sub par.

I also don't understand why you're using Fastrobiotics as examples here. For starters, you famously hate those decks. Secondly, all of those decks run Hedge Fund plus a ton of other economy to make them efficient.

Again, I'm done with this deck, so go ahead and flame me or whatever you have to do to heal your ego, I don't care. It's pointless arguing with someone who doesn't actually want help. I look forward to seeing this win Worlds this year...

27 Jan 2015 Jashay

I'm going to mention economy too; please don't bite my head off!

You start with 5. If you install and double advance a stellar ICE, even with the lowered rez cost, you have no left. Install and Shipment from SanSan will leave you with 2 after a rez. Double install and Shipment from Kaguya leaves you unable to rez either bit.

The shipments are pseudo-economy, at best. They save you money, but they don't actually generate any credits. Commercialization is of no use in the early game. So that leaves you with Hostile Takeover. It's admittedly one of the best agendas in the game (IMO), but you can't rely on it as an economy card.

I can see how once this deck gets rolling, it would work, but I can't help but think you'd face a lot of early game pressure and struggle to recover. Especially when more than 1 in 4 cards is an agenda.

27 Jan 2015 Dydra

@Glitch please don't tell me what Jinteki did and didn't have, because I can guarantee you, that I've done more games than you with them. Only thing that I will say on the matter is that economy meant too much for the game back then, since the ICE suit required quite a spine. This is definitely not the case any longer.

Second, last week I made ( as in build, not net-deck) a Blue-sun deck. I went 6-0 with it rolling over with 20-30 credits in my pool and whatnot. So I hardly doubt your argument, that because I play Jinteki, I don't know what I am doing.

Third, why do I keep comparing this to NEH Astrobiotics (which I hate so much)? Because NEH Astrobiotics is a fast advance deck ( and the only in my opinion at the moment) , which guess what - this deck is fast advance as well. So yes, it makes sense to compare both decks.

Last, on your comment about worlds ... well, look now "big player" ... no deck that comes out in the next month or two will win worlds - do you know why? Because there is an entire new cycle prior that even ... so this comment you made, again, I find hardly relevant.

Be done with this deck? Okey cool, judging from your comments, you can't really contribute to this deck anyway ...

@Jashay

" You start with 5. If you install and double advance a stellar ICE, even with the lowered rez cost, you have no left. "

  • Do you mean after I lock them out from the server which they want to access?

" Install and Shipment from SanSan will leave you with 2 after a rez. "

  • Enough if you have ToL + Atlas in hand . Enough if you have Hostile Take Over in Hand

" Double install and Shipment from Kaguya leaves you unable to rez either bit. "

  • True enough. If I have 2 ICE and a Shipment, what are the other 3 cards that I draw? Based on that I will protect HQ or R&D and double advance (manually) save the shipment for the next install.

In the next version of this deck I've implemented Space Camp which honestly makes me more willing to leave 1 server open (HQ or R&D) on turn 1.

The worst draw you can have with this deck ... and that I really see as problematic draw ... is to draw only ICE or Jackson and ICE ... if you don't draw your uppgrades/ hostiles/ shipments it will be tough ... but guess what, every deck can have a horrible draw

27 Jan 2015 Jashay

"Do you mean after I lock them out from the server which they want to access?"

If it's an Asteroid Belt, fantastic. If it's an Ice Wall, that's okay. Anything else is not going to lock them out. And which server do you choose? With your agenda density, you can't afford to leave R&D open; The Maker's Eye gives a 60% chance of hitting an agenda. Indexing gives 80%, and a 40% chance of 2 agendas.

But if you leave HQ open, Account Siphon is a thing, as is Lamprey to a lesser extent. I'm not trying to say that leaving a server open will lose you the game, but it's not a situation that is likely to end well for you.

"Enough if you have ToL + Atlas in hand . Enough if you have Hostile Take Over in Hand"

So if you get Asteroid Belt, Shipment from SanSan, Trick of Light and Project Atlas in hand, you're fine. That's a 0.8% chance. If we go for the easier option of the Hostile Takeover, that's a 3.5% chance.

But let's assume you pull that off. You are now two turns down, with one piece of ICE on the board, and 0 or 7 with a bad pub. What's your play now? IAA another stellar ICE, presumably. But that's only an option with the Hostile Takeover.

"every deck can have a horrible draw"

Of course, and there's nothing to be done there except design your deck to mitigate it. Synergy decks often suffer badly from poor draws, as their strength comes from pieces working together. If you don't get the pieces, the decks struggle.

But whilst this is a synergy deck, your lack of economy means you need to use your synergy promotors as support and economy in the early game, leaving you entirely reliant on drawing shipments. It just seems like not only do you start slowly, you then run out of steam.

Of course, I haven't played the deck, so it might be that I'm entirely wrong. But I can't make the maths work reliably whichever way I spin it.

27 Jan 2015 Dydra

Can you give me the math on those %? I'm quite curious ... Maker's eye on 60% to hit one agenda? I'm fine with that risk, because

1) he needs the card in his opening hand 2) I don't care what ONE agenda he hits as long as it's not Atlas ( do the % on that) 3) it's just one agenda with such high %

that is a risk I'm willing to take, so I can get away with Atlas with a counter on it.

I agree about the synergy decks and everything else, but what about looking at the amount of cards that have synergy in this deck, don't u think it's quite nice? You talk only about Shipments, what of the upgrades? That is 1c for -3C rezz cost ... net is +2 .... what about the counter's on Firmware Updates? that's 4 counters , which you will spread in 2 of your turns ... but let me repeat that

Those are 4 counters, that you can "land" with 0 credits in your pool. Hence you can guarantee that you will score your next 2 atlases, as long as ToL and 2c .... again that is without putting shipments

The amount of synergy in this deck is really high and you honestly have to draw either only ICE, or only Agenda or ONLY shipments (and never hit ice) so you draw something improper ... but that is luck and my point is that, in whatever deck it happens - it happens ...

27 Jan 2015 Jashay

It's simplified, but roughly speaking: You have 13 agendas in 49 cards, which is 0.265 chance of hitting one in a draw. Therefore you have a 0.735 of not hitting one with a single access. The Maker's Eye accesses 3 cards, so the chance of you not hitting an agenda is 0.735x0.735x0.735, which is 0.397.

1-0.397 = 0.603 = 60.3%. The actual value would be a little higher due to not being able to access the same cards twice. Or lower, depending on the contents of your hand.

The percentage for Project Atlas would be 17.3%.

Satellite Grid helps, but unless you have multiple bits of ICE on the same server, which is unlikely in the early game, it is no better that advancing the ICE: It costs one click to install and one credit to rez.

Firmware Updates is a super-good card in this kind of deck, but you need to have scored it for it to help. To score it you need to have either Trick of Lighted an ICE, or already built a server.

As I said, once you get going, I have no doubt the deck is a beast. The amount of synergy cards is very cool, and the stellar ICE is really, really good, especially in decks like this. But I think your early game is in need of streamlining either in the form of a bit more economy or a bit more cheap ETR ICE (to give you more setup time)

27 Jan 2015 Exo

EVERYBODY IS WRONG. This deck absolutely don't need more econ, it needs more agenda! Preferably I would add some Vulcan Coverup because it's a unexpected game ender and you know, who cares if it got stole and you get a BP? With already 3xHostile Takeover and 3xNAPD, one more BD or two isn't a big deal. Anyway, NAPD is not there to be scored, it's there to make him loose the game! The runner won't certainly use those BP credit to pay for it. Now, get lost you punks.

27 Jan 2015 Exo

To clarify things: "Punks" is a reference to all the people that are making non-constructive comments instead of simply giving a like, what everybody should already be doing by now.

27 Jan 2015 Dydra

@Exo I see that you are well-estabilished deck builder and a gentleman ;) I wish you good luck in your life as a stand up commedian ;)

@Jashay MIght worth it to get 2-3 enigma and go -1 builder -1 wormhole -1 satelite upgrade .... or -1 Lycan/searchlight ... that will need some testing and tuning

27 Jan 2015 Jashay

Speaking from personal preference, I would try to keep Lycan. Yes, it is pricey, and is foiled by Mimic and Yog.0 trivially, but Yog.0 is a rarity since Lotus Field, and it still forces two equipment checks.

Searchlight seems more cuttable, especially without tag punishment. I also doubt three Satellite Grid are needed, so dropping to two seems a pretty simple choice.

Keep the deck updated; I'd be interested to see what you come up with after testing.

27 Jan 2015 Exo

A comedian? I am your greatest fan and I already given up on deck building any deck as I can't even dream to have your talent. Everybody is screaming about your genius ideas everywhere I go and how great deck builder you are. I think they even talked about it on CNN this week. I hope I don't embarrass you as a fan...

27 Jan 2015 Dydra

Oh, please don't hold back =) keep up with your funny scetches .... I'm sure u'll make it to hollywood some day :)

27 Jan 2015 DydraFan#1

Love you! <3

28 Jan 2015 Dydra

Tnx bro <3 I <3 u too <3 !

28 Jan 2015 terelinth

Dydra's sensitivity aside... ;) I honestly think he's closer to the truth about how this deck would work out economy wise than all the other commenters. A deck only needs enough economy to do what it needs to do, you'll never have enough economy to do every single thing so it's about how well you can do what you're designed to do and this spread has a lot of click and credit saving synergies... I think he's on to something (definitely needs Yale in there though!)

29 Jan 2015 Dydra

I will post the updated deck list after I get O&C and make 10ish games.

4 Feb 2015 Pyjam

I've told you elsewhere the 5/3 agendas are caviar for the runner. You don't do the same mistake. NAPD Contract is the right choice.

You know my own deck, I suppose. Mark Yale is useless. Hedge Funds are unplayable. According to my experience, Beanstalk is better than Kaguya because there isn't always a good target for Kaguya. Shipment from SanSan OTOH is very good, but I prefer to spend the influence on 2x Archived Memories. I have tested with 1 and 2 Reclamation Order also but I really prefer Archived Memories.

I haven't found Constellation Protocol to be very useful. You must have your reasons. I don't understand your choice of Searchlight; could you explain?

Do you play, with a remote? It seems necessary to score the Firmware Updates. Orion seems to be very strong on a remote. I would not play it on a central against Leela.

I chose not to play with a remote past the early game. I explain my choice here : www.boardgamegeek.com

23 Feb 2015 aero

It's a good deck. What do you do on the off chance Leela scores something and bounces your advanced ice back?

8 Mar 2015 Dydra

If I play Leela, I guess I'll have to play a bit around that. Maybe don't keep more than 3 advances one ICE, or simply try to rezz as much ICE as possible ...

19 Apr 2015 dydra_is_effed

Eff ya'll.. This is original deck idea. I came up with it like myself, all with my brain and stuff. Plz ignore these other decks which I never happen to see :

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